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I was just wondering what everyone's take is on the best fire retardant fabric (besides leather!). I want to make some costumes with layers and I've seen performers wearing all kinds of stretchy materials.. no idea if they were being safe but maybe somebody has some ideas??
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Washington, D.C.
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 1:37 PMhome of poi has granted me permission to host this information ->
sparqily.qathi.com/fire_saf..._burn.htm
sparqily.qathi.com/fire_saf...rials.htm
... with that said, I make everything lined with cotton. -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 1:48 PMThanks for the info.. I'll look into it in detail before I start creating!
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 1:49 PMThat's some interesting info, Qathi - thanks for posting it! I personally wear cotton and denim... although I recently acquired a leather dress that I've been meaning to try out.
I was taught that, in general, you want to stick with natural fibers because they don't melt. A cotton shirt that catches fire can be put out without much damage to you, but a synthetic shirt that melts onto your skin is a different story.
Someone once suggested a test to see if clothes are safe: when in doubt, hold a lighter to a corner of the fabric. If it simply smolders/burns, it's probably ok. If it melts, you don't want to wear it.
I've also heard of some type of chemical that can be sprayed/soaked on clothing to make it flame retardant. I don't know much about that, though, and I have to wonder about the toxicity of the chemical itself...
As a last resort, a friend of mine recently obtained a kevlar jumpsuit at a thrift store! -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 2:01 PMThat sounds right along the lines of what I've heard and what I practice. I just have seen (amazing) performers with stretchy nylon looking material that looks great for costumes so I wondered if maybe there was something else out there that I wasn't aware of. It's kind of hard to bring a lighter into a fabric store and test it :) -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 2:18 PM>It's kind of hard to bring a lighter into a fabric store and test it :)
They never let a girl have any fun. ;)
I understand completely. The aforementioned leather dress is a trifle (hah) on the short side, and it gets cold in northern California. Normally I would wear nylons with this dress, or fishnets, or the equivalent. But if I'm playing with fire...
Well, perhaps I'll just do lots of leg wraps to stay warm.
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 6:54 PMsorry the first msg was so brief, I was at work.
ROSCO is a flame retardant spray you can use on fabrics to prevent it from flaring. I don't have info on specifics. You can get it at theatrical supply places - other places??
I'm not an expert, but I do have some experience dressing people. And of course, I come with opnions. I see people get burned by their skill all the time (usually the same people over and over again, oddly)
Yesh, You can spray your synthetic cute stretchy things
You can get swatches at the fabric store to test at home
You can ask them how they are rated, they may hav info. ALL juvinile fabrics (for kid jammies and stuff) is flame restistant, but it's just not as cute on you and me, as it is on li'l Jr.
As I said before, as a personal habit, I line all the cutie shiny outfits I have with cotton, or I make it a couple layers of cotton thick. It'll still burn, it may even still melt, just not to my skin, but to the lining layer of cotton.
Also, through practice, I know where I'm likley to hit myself with a tool (I am my poi) and dress accordingly. 5 years ago, I wouldn't attempt to wear what I'm willing to wear now.
I see people wearing cutie stretchy outfits and I skeptically wonder, "Am I overly cautious?", no. Am I cautious enough? I'll accept a no answer. However the worst (clothing failure) burn I know of was from treated synthetic. The closest I came to real danger my micro fleece dress lit and BURNED giant holes - but I was wearing cotton under it. I lost the dress, but nothing else. Since I've been making all of my own stuff.
Sometimes I wish I were balsy enough to wear flowy, stretchy synthetics, but I'm not.
Q -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Sat, January 10, 2004 - 1:42 PMI have to agree with whats already been posted here about leather and cottons, and I have also soaked my costumes with flame retardent chemicals. I think it was a borax solution, and I have also gotten chemicals from the fire department. I don't know what that was made of, quite possibly the ROSCO that Qathi mentioned. Both chemicals made the costumes very stiff, but were easily washed out with detergent and water.
Its also important not to wear any flammable hair products and do a Michael Jackson! I have a friend who did exactly that, set her hair on fire and burned her ear badly. -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Mon, January 12, 2004 - 8:45 AMSpeaking to the hair thing...I've got a lot of hair & I like to keep it that way. I rarely perform with it down & often wear wigs or bandannas...but when hair is showing, pure Aloe Vera gel makes for a great styling product that can protect to some extent.
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 6:53 PMThere are alot of different chemicals you can treat fabric with to make it fire resitant only down fall to them is you can not wash what ever you have treated or it will wash out the chemicals.
when looking at fabrics you will have to make note of the ratings FR= means fire resistant that it is a flamable material that has been treat to make it not burn.
FP= means fire proof means ythe matriel its self wont burn examplea are kevlar / nomex
the Fr rated martiels are very affordable I like stuff called commando cloth it is a very heavy demin that had been treated we use it for floor drops and safety towels stuff i use is like 12 bucks a yard.
you can also buy the chemicals to treat just about any matriel
I have a catalog here that sells it i am thinking it was like 50 bucks gallon.If anyone wants more info I will dig out the catalog
Myself I prefere leather and skin i also have a tight mesh shirt I wear I have bounced poi off this shirt before and it didnt go up. -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Fri, January 9, 2004 - 10:52 PMI am with Quathi & Riz on this. (thanks for the posts, Q!)
I do not wear *anything* synthetic next to my skin when burning, and would never recommend doing so to anyone.
Theres still plenty of choices for the enterprizing creative fire-ist.
good-fitting leather, metal, occasonally some heavy cotton, and a lil body-paint is all I ever need.
If you simply must wear something else, please follow Qathi's wise example and *line it*!
I've heard that natural rubber (*not* plastic) can be OK. Anybody have any facts? -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Sat, January 10, 2004 - 10:31 AMThis is great! Glad to get so much insight from you guys.. The reason behind this post: I recently moved to all leather with maximum skin coverage but this makes costume design difficult. I got my first bad burn (in 4 years of spinning) from fuel transfer onto bare skin on sensitive parts (my tummy). I don't want my body to end up like my stomach. I still want to try making costumes so good fabric is essential. Riz, can you provide some more info on this commando cloth?? Is it specialty fabric or is it readily obtainable at fabric stores? I'm getting so excited to begin my next creations! -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Sat, January 10, 2004 - 3:56 PMGood news most fun fur is made of modacrylic which is a self extinguishing fiber, as are wigs and hairpieces.
I'm sorry to learn that you've been burned. Responding to your recent burn by total coverage with leather is a fear response that deserves attention. Try taking a step back to review the entire situation. Writing about the experience as a follow up report of the show to share your thoughts tactfully with your troupe will help prevent that kind of situation in the future. If writing a report is too tight assy for your taste (it is for me) at least talk about it. Always voice concerns.
Talk through your personal bounaries with your partners beforehand, which is a good idea in any situation.
Spend some time thinking about what you want to wear, then make it yourself out of materials that will give you confidence in your safety. Have roscoe handy with your tool bag for last minute spritz if you’re feelin’ it. However, flame retardant doesn’t make anything fire proof – flame resistant, fire retardant and fire proof are all very different. Know the differences and work with them.
Costuming in layers works well (think tribal belly dancing costumes, that shit’s like 4-6 layers deep, or more) jewelry and accessories will make even the most plain outfit look great – same for guys. Spend time collecting the parts you want. Soon you’ll have a good collection with which you can assemble innumerable great outfits.
... I could go on for days about fire eating/transfer safety for groups - and I know we all have input, perhaps another thread??
Q -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Sat, January 10, 2004 - 6:11 PMThanks again Q.. I have discussed my burn and the incident itself with people. I've definitely learned and grown from it. Safety has always been a primary concern for me.. and will continue to be. I suppose now I simply see everything encompassing performance through slightly different lenses.
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Sat, January 10, 2004 - 9:49 PMTalia
the commando cloth is a specialty item I dout you would find it in a reg fabric store.unles they cater to theather people.
I order the stuff in bulk from a supply house in cali. It is one of the items I sell on my web site.I am getting ready to make an order from thesse folks if you want some let me know I can get it in most colors.I only order it in black but im sure they will sell me a couple yards of colored cloth.let me know off list if your want me to order you some and what colors I will give it to you at at tad over my cost.
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Thu, January 15, 2004 - 1:20 PMProbably not what you're looking for, but I have a friend who's tested some slightly stretchy jeans with good results. They're 98% cotton, 2% spandex. The spandex is woven in with the cotton, so they're a bit more comfy and flattering than regular jeans, but don't seem to have any of the scary melting problems that 100% spandex would. She's been using them for fire for quite a while, doing wraps and the like, without any problems.
I wonder about natural/synthetic blends: at what point is the synthetic content high enough as to become dangerous? I suppose it depends on the weave... probably best to test each fabric separately. -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Thu, January 15, 2004 - 3:32 PMOur standard has always been that 98/2 is the minimum percentage of natural/synthetic ratio. You can get some great fitting strechy tee's in that mix too.
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Sun, January 18, 2004 - 2:55 PMMostly evry one is on the same page....Wool is also very good..I trust flammex-it has saved me from 2 potentially horrible burns....The down fall after 7 years of using it is
1 basically destroys the costume over time...it makes fabric breakdown if it has been repeatedly applied over time
2 discolors some fabric after the first washing and reaaplication-mostly due to ph i think
besides that for a fire costume that has a certain amount of life it is great..You do have to dilute it a bit. and should to save money and also like serifina said it changes the handling of the fabric way too much if it is applied to strongly..best thing is to follow the directions expilicity and get the dilution ness for the fabric thru burn tests...the best result I have found is a water to Flammex ratio of about 50/50 to 75/25 the ness 33 is good for both cotton and cotten blends..we use a lot of crazy shit on our costumes with little or no real problem.
good luck -
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Mon, January 19, 2004 - 2:31 AMOne caveat to using wool: don't do wraps and the like on it. It smells nasty, like burning hair.
(which makes sense, if you think about it...)
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Re: Best Fire Retardant Fabrics
Tue, January 27, 2004 - 5:47 PMChicago Canvas (www.chicagocanvas.com/theaterfab.htm) sells duvetyne by the yard. Duvetyne is the fabric that's used for theatre curtains, and does well for fire towels or fire blankets. It's slightly lighter than commando cloth, but holds up well. FlameSeal (www.flameseal.com/products.html) out of Houston has a good product - we've used both the natural fiber formula and the synthetic, with good results.
